|  |  |  | | | | | | SECTION I –Feedback, did you really get it? | | |
Stop, do not give up on this Czar Report…it is not the same one from last month. This is actually a new topic, but it is all about feedback. This time the feedback that we are going to talk about is that which you can get from each person who decides to join the ranks of “former associate” of your organization. Yes, I am talking about what are commonly referred to as “exit interviews.”
I know that each reader would like to only remember the associates who stay with the organization, but regrettably every organization has unplanned turnover. That is, turnover that we not only had not planned, but turnover we did not really want. There is no doubt that if you actually follow the leadership advice in The Czar Report, you would like to think that the only people who leave the organization are those you counsel to leave. Unfortunately, virtually no organization has “zero turnover.”
No doubt, there is always some turnover that is unavoidable; serious illness, relocation of spouse, retirement, returning to school after an internship, and a few others that are simply out of the control of you or the associate. The plain fact is, however, that most of the self initiated turnover by associates is because something caused them to make a job change that they thought was a better opportunity or fit for them. It is that turnover that every manager should want to understand and be able to learn from. It is here that and exit interview can be helpful.
Stop to think about your own career. How many times have you made a job change that was not driven by the “unavoidable exceptions?” If this is true, then the first question is, “How often were you asked to do an “exit interview” with somebody in the HR Department of the firm you were departing? If that interview did not happen, then the second question, “Did your old organization actually learn why you were leaving?” Did you tell your old boss the real reason for your departure, or did you, as so many employees do, tell a story that made the departure less difficult? Unfortunately, it is highly likely that a departing employee may never really tell the “whole story” even when she tries to be candid. The fear of reprisal, or at least denial, by the boss is almost always as the heart of the fear of telling the whole reason. Most of the time the reason given will be something like: I had an opportunity I simply could not deny, or I got such a large salary increase I just could not say no, or I needed better benefits, 4) I saw a chance to do something I never thought I could do, or worse... a stretch or even fabricated reason like, “This job is much closer to my home and the commute time is a huge reason I chose to resign.” Obviously, there are times when these reasons are valid, but much more often they are a cover for much more serious and concerning rationales for departure. The problem with resignations is that the real reason for the departure is almost always hidden from the boss left behind. In some ways, one of the best tools for organizational diagnosis is the exit interview. Whe this interview is conducted by a trusted third party, often the true reason can be determined through sound interviewing techniques. This is not really the territory for an amateur, it can take a real professional to get at the “hidden cause” of departure. With a sound interview, it can be determined if the cause of the resignation is something the organization or the manager could have changed. Unfortunately, all too often my experience is that the real cause of resignations is not money or better opportunity but rather our failure, or at least a perception of our failure. In short, we could have changed the factors that caused the decision, or even have changed the decision if we had know of the issu! es sooner. The great tragedy is that often the exit interview provides us information on perceptions that are truly false, but perceptions that we have failed to recognize until it is too late to change the staff understanding. The good news about using the exit interview is that at least we can learn of issues that can be acted on to prevent further erosion of staff. The bad news is that if an issue is so severe that it has caused one person to terminate, it likely to be serious enough to cause others to resign as well. It is essential that exit interviews not be ignored when they provide us insight into issues. The organization must focus on the issue and address it quickly or there will be further resignations. The painful truth in most exit interviews is that the cause of the resignation eventually gets back to the boss…yes, the immediate supervisor/leader of the organizational unit the associate has left. Research consistently has shown that dissatisfaction with the leadership is the primary cause of turnover. Worse, most bosses have no idea that they are the reason. The real tragedy is that most bosses do not have enough introspection to realize how their behavior impacts their staff. Far too many bosses expect their staff to respond to them rather than to be the leader who listens and responds to the staff. Managers frequently are so focused on the technical aspects of their unit that they forget that the people who work for them are how the work gets done. They simply forget to Love their staff and because they do, they never see the issues that are causing the staff to get dissatisfied or frustrated with the workplace.! As an organizational leader, it is imperative that you find out the real reasons for turnover, not just the convenient, easy way out, response. The exit interview can be attempted by a truly effective leader, but it
is generally much better for it to be done by the HR Department, or even the more senior manager in the hierarchy. Wherever it is done, it must be done and the information must be used to evaluate and to help the organization learn the true cause of the departure.
| | | SECTION II – Mini Case | | |
Stephen has been the manager of the sales support staff for about three years and has had a great experience with his turnover. His rate has been, at or below that of the organization as a whole and he has been complimented on his low turnover in each performance appraisal he has had during that time. Unfortunately, this last year he has had three staff leaving within the last three months and just this morning he found out that the fourth person was about to leave. His boss has now begun to ask him about these departures and it has started to give Stephen concern. It has been a real puzzle because he simply cannot determine a common thread in the explanations.
The first resignation was what he thought was very unusual and unfortunate. Sue, his most senior associate came down with leukemia and was forced to go to the hospital and eventually was so ill that she was sent to a nursing home. This clearly left him with a serious void and he filled her slot with a senior staff person from another department so that he could maintain the skills required to continue to perform at the highest level.
Shortly after Sue left, Stu resigned to take a job at another local competitor for what he said was a large increase in salary. Then about two weeks later, Fred left to move to a location closer to his home. Just yesterday, he heard that Mary was leaving to take another position within the company which was a promotion. Stephen is at a loss to understand what was happening, but he went to see his boss to tell him that he was very concerned that there was a problem that he could not fix. His boss listened to the stories, but simply said he did not know what to do. His boss had very little new insight, but he did suggest that Stephen talk to his staff. Stephen was nervous about the conversations, but he did ask his staff if they knew what has happened and not a one of them could give him any answers other than the assumption that there really was no connection between the events. They all said they were not thinking of leaving and they did not have a clue what Stephen could have done. The Analysis: There is no doubt, this could be a series of coincidences, but frankly I am not convinced of that. There is also no doubt that it would have been very helpful to have a series of exit interviews done by the HR Department which could have addressed the issue with each person as they were leaving. We are left with the information we have from the case description, but we may have enough clues that we could learn more about causes. First, it is hard to deny that the loss of Sue was unbelievable crisis for Sue and the group. Sue’s illness is one of those truly sad events that can have a dramatic impact on a group. Indeed, we cannot ignore the fact that the loss of a senior person like this could be the entire cause of the turnover. Sue may have been the emotional glue that held the group together, and her apparently severe, if not terminal illness, could be taking a very severe toll on the individuals in the group. It is possible that every turnover is an emotional, mid life crisis for each of those leaving. If there is any chance that this is true, then Stephen needs to get the group help. This traumatic event could be the entire explanation, and some type of support group intervention could be required to help these staff members through their loss. There is another possibility that could be tied to the new senior staff member brought in after Sue got sick. Either the group is unhappy with the person simply because it is not Sue, or that person may be having a tough time becoming the informal leader of the group, and indeed may be creating tension and discontent. Stephen must ask himself is there is this possibility and he must attempt to get an answer fast. If this is the case, then he may need to move that person out of the group if he is unable to modify the behavior. Incidentally, we cannot simply assume there is no problem with Stephen’s leadership. It could be that his leadership has finally been so problematic for so long that the staff is finally taking the initiative to get out “while the getting is good.” Indeed, it could have been Sue who held them together under his flawed leadership, and without her, his weaknesses may be intolerable to them. | | | SECTION III – TIPS FROM THE CZAR | | |
Exit interviews can be very valuable, but they can also be very difficult to do. Some Tips:
- It is best if the interviewer is in fact not in the direct “chain of command” of the unit. Many staff members leaving simply do not want to tell their boss, or anybody in the reporting hierarchy precisely what the issue was.
- The interview needs to be non-threatening. If the interview is conducted in a manner that threatens the departing employee, then there will be no honest feedback.
- The interview needs to be an inquiry that looks for root causes, not accepting simple, comfortable answers. The interviewer needs to recognize that most departing employees want to get on with their lives and will try to avoid anything that “burns a bridge.” There must be an opportunity to encourage free thought, stream of consciousness, rather than force a structured response pattern. In short, let the employee simply talk about what he liked and did not like about the organization.
- Make certain that the employee is told that this interview is confidential and will not be reflected in their file, or will not be used directly, to give feedback to the boss, unless hie wants that.
- Consider a confidential survey form, maybe even completed in an on-line mode, so that the individual can believe that they can be truly candid.
| | | SECTION IV – ASK THE CZAR – | | | From Tracy:
I am a supervisor of a large insurance underwriting group and our organization has had virtually no turnover during almost the entire history of the company. We have a family feeling in the organization and we are one of those few remaining organizations where there have been no layoffs in the history of the company. I have a group of associates who have been with me for a long time and, until last week, we have had zero turnover for 8 years. Last week, my most senior underwriter resigned and actually left without giving me reasonable notice. I am feeling really hurt and frankly confused as well. I talked to her about the departure and asked her why, but she simply said that she got a job offer that was so significant that she could not turn it down. She is being given a job that is actually larger than mine and got a huge salary increase. The thing that really confused me is that she will be commuting a far greater distance and I cannot see how she is going to enjoy working for the new firm. They are a small and less secure company and she is taking a huge risk going there. I do not know what to do. I do not want this departure to affect my staff, but I have already sensed that they are very upset about the loss and they seem to somehow blame me. I really do not want to do. The-Czar: There is no doubt that your organization is quite unusual. That turnover rate is almost unheard of today. That actually may be your problem. With so little turnover, you may find that the factors that caused the turnover may be very complex. Here are some random ideas: - Maybe the person who left actually did get an offer that she could “not refuse.”
- Perhaps this woman really was ready for a totally new challenge that was fulfilled by the job offer.
- This person may simply have been going through a “mid-live” crisis that so many adults experience.
- Maybe the close family feeling, actually did not feel comfortable for this person.
The key is, these are perfectly reasonable reasons for the person to leave. That said, there could be other issues. Maybe there is something happening within your group that you really do not have any understanding of. Is it possible that there is some conflict going on with one or moiré of the other members that made this person decide the only way to solve the pain was to leave. It may even be possible that this person has found a relationship gone wrong for some reason that is very personal or private. I also must admit to you that you may have a problem as the leader. If your staff seems to be blaming you, then they somehow think that you failed them. That may be wholly unfair, but it is a challenge you must address. If this were my responsibility, I would try to sit down with the group members, both as a group and individually, and try to get them to talk about their anger. For you, that might be very uncomfortable, especially since you have virtually no experience with turnover. Given that you might be very uncomfortable, if you have an HR Department, I strongly recommend that you get them to help you “drill down” on why the employee left. As I read your question, I think that there is something underneath all these emotions that the staff is feeling, and in some way, they obviously are looking to you to “fix” their pain. There is no doubt this is a complex issue, and you need help. Please ask for it from somebody in the organization, even if it is your boss.
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